Yes nicolaou - family is the only rationale for my continuance. I am shunned to an extent as I'm no longer "exemplary" an can cope with that. However, I won't totally desist from attending meetings until family become conscious too. The video shown last year about the Philippines' typoon gave rise to some questions on the part of family as has the Australian commission of enquiry. But there's a long way to go as yet.
Nicholaus Kopernicus
JoinedPosts by Nicholaus Kopernicus
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12
Galling Meeting Today! Truly Nauseating!
by Nicholaus Kopernicus infirst scripture used by the public speaker was jeremiah 31:34 - "and they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, know jehovah!
for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them, is the utterance of jehovah.
for i shall forgive their error, and their sin i shall remember no more.immediately, i was distracted.
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12
Galling Meeting Today! Truly Nauseating!
by Nicholaus Kopernicus infirst scripture used by the public speaker was jeremiah 31:34 - "and they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, know jehovah!
for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them, is the utterance of jehovah.
for i shall forgive their error, and their sin i shall remember no more.immediately, i was distracted.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
First scripture used by the public speaker was Jeremiah 31:34 - "“And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, ‘KNOW Jehovah!’ for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “For I shall forgive their error, and their sin I shall remember no more.”
Immediately, I was distracted. I started asking myself quietly...- How long is your name kept on the specialized shepherding list if you are DF, DA, or publicly reproved?
- How much time has to lapse from DA / DF before you can be considered for regular pioneering, RBC, etc?
- To be considered as a volunteer at Bethel or on an international project, why do they ask you if you've been reinstated by a judcial committee within dthe last five years?
Then the WT study made it even worse. Paragraph 9 stated: "Humbly acknowledge your limitations and admit your mistakes". How can they print and recommend that to others when they do not practice it themselves. Their strategy is denial, denial, denial. I imagined myself on a flight and reaching out to the seat in front to retreive the vomit bag. What an almighty cheek for those authors to print such a suggestion when they flout it themselves! I asked myself, who are they to write these articles on parenting? Just more Peter Principle on their part! The quality of talks and WT "studies" will engender the irregular and non-attendance which they are trying to assuage!
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HIGHER EDUCATION, THE BIBLE, AND THE WTBTS / GBoJW
by Nicholaus Kopernicus inthe disdain which the wtbts / gbojw has for higher education is well known among jw's and jw dissenters.
the specious rationale for such disdain is also well known.
however, it is a fact that there is no scriptural authority for..... a) prohibiting education at any level for another person.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
The disdain which the WTBTS / GBoJW has for higher education is well known among JW's and JW dissenters. The specious rationale for such disdain is also well known. However, it is a fact that there is no scriptural authority for....
- a) prohibiting education at any level for another person
- b) taking it upon oneself to decide the limits of another individual's education
In that the WTBTS has made its position increasingly clear in recent years, looking at their published literature to gain independent and impartial advice for a youngster who may be considering university as an option may be ill advised. Yet is is readily possible to examine the Bible itself for examples of individuals whose education went beyond the norm and which education did not in any way detract from or compromise their relationship with God nor attenuate their spirituality. Further, it is readily possible to examine non-WT literature to discern what authors may have gained from the Bible in terms of how they see its portrayal of advanced education - far removed from the nihilism of the WTBTS I should add here right at the outset. The Bible characters considered here in this context are Luke, Moses, and Daniel and his three friends Azariah, Hananiah, and Mishael.
The Insight volume published by the WTBTS states "That Luke was well educated is apparent from his writings. Also, his background as a doctor is noticeable in his use of medical terms.—Lu 4:38; Ac 28:8.
Luke joined Paul in sending greetings to Christians at Colossae when Paul wrote to them from Rome (c. 60-61 C.E.), and the apostle identified him as “the beloved physician.” (Col 4:14) In writing to Philemon from Rome (c. 60-61 C.E.), Paul included greetings from Luke (Lucas, KJ), referring to him as one of his “fellow workers.” (Phm 24) That Luke stuck close to Paul and was with him shortly before the apostle’s martyrdom is evident from Paul’s remark, “Luke alone is with me.”—2Ti 4:11.
From the above, we can see that the WTS acknowledges that Luke was well educated and was a doctor. There is no mention however, of his education being the equivalent in its day, of a university education! He was highly respected. His education served to encourage others as "followers of the way" and did not lead to him falling victim to any of the pitfalls which the WTBTS opine may befall graduates.
The Insight volume also considers Moses. It relates that "As a member of Pharaoh’s household, he was “instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians,” becoming “powerful in his words and deeds,” undoubtedly powerful in both mental and physical capabilities.—Ex 2:1-10; Ac 7:20-22."
Again, no acknowledgement that Moses' education would have been the equivalent of a university education at that time. After all, the Egyptians were such formidable civil engineers and would have needed an advanced education system to train their engineers. Indeed, so complex was their output that their architecture is studiously examined with awe by graduates today. Yet despite Moses having been "instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians", none of his peers accused him of having wasted time which could have better been spent in what the accuser might have seen as service to God. He too, did not fall victim to any of the pitfalls so alarmingly portrayed by the WTBTS / GBoJW.ABEDNEGO (AZARIAH)In Babylon he, along with Daniel, Hananiah, and Mishael, passed, with high honors, a three-year training course and a regal examination personally conducted by Nebuchadnezzar, after having first demonstrated religious integrity in matters of food and drink. (Da 1:4, 5, 8-20) Later, at Daniel’s request, the king made Azariah and his two companions administrators over the jurisdictional district of Babylon.—Da 2:49.
MESHACH (MISHAEL)Mishael, Azariah, Hananiah, and Daniel were then put through a three-year training course by the Babylonian royalty, at the end of which they proved superior even to the king’s counselors. (2Ki 24:1, 6, 8, 12-16; Da 1:1-7, 17-20) During this time these four remained firm in their devotion to God, even refusing to pollute themselves with the king’s delicacies.—Da 1:8-16.
SHADRACH (HANANIAH)By the end of three years’ study, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were found to be ten times better than the wise men of Babylon. Certainly they had Jehovah’s blessing, which in turn, no doubt, was partly due to their steadfast refusal to pollute themselves with the Babylonian delicacies. (Da 1:3-20) Their next-recorded appointment was to the administration of the jurisdictional district of Babylon. (Da 2:49)
- undertook three years study
- passed with high honours
- proved superior to their contemporaries (WT says ten times better!)
- remained faithful to God
- and enjoyed good employment prospects!
Well well well! What on earth is all the fuss about on the part of the WTS / GBoJW today? There are no leadership entities in evidence in the Bible which showed the antipathy towards higher\advanced education which the WTBTS shows today. If anything, everyone then valued and esteemed such an education! Notably here too, no acknowledgement by the WTBTS / GBoJW of Daniel's three friends having undertaken an education equivalent to that of university level. In this example too, the education they gained did not represent a hazard.
Ch 5 - pg57
"Daniel tells us that the elite students like himself and his friends were trained for three years in a broad curriculum, involving the languages and literature of the Babylonians. No expense was spared by the government and, since Babylonian culture put a high premium on physical image, the students were given the bery best of food - in fact the same food that was served to the emperor himself. Students being students, such food was a great perk of being selected for the course. It is certain that these four captives from a city brought to its knees by an impoverishing siege had never seen anything like this quality of food before: it was beyond the dreams of those used to war rations.
But Daniel resolved that he would not defile himself with the king's food, or with the wine that he drank. (Daniel 1:8.)"
pg62
"Libraries and education institutions in particular were closely attached to temples in major cities of the empire. According to the archaeologists, Babylon had temples galore at the time - over a thousand of them. In contemporary, secular England most colleges in the universities of Oxford and Cambridge still have a Latin grace said at meals by a scholar or fellow of the college. It would surely be almost incredible if the University of Babylon, permeated as it was with idolatry, did not have pagan rituals at meal times. There would have been constant offerings and toasts to the gods.""We should take careful note, however, that Daniel did not protest against the education in the University of Babylon as such. He clearly devoted himself to it, and we can well imagine that he enjoyed his university course. He and his friends put such energy into the learning of the languages, literature, philosophy, science, economic, history, and so on, that they were star pupils and ended up with the top distinctions, far ahead of the rest. Daniel did not protest as an observer outside the system: he protested as a participant.
It is important to bear this in mind, not least when we hear the term 'apocalyptic literature' being used in connection with the book of Daniel. This description tends to conjure up the idea of some wild and irrational prophet of doom, warning people to flee society, barricade themselves like monks or hermits against the world and await the imminent, all-engulfing cataclysm that marks the end of history. Well, if that is what 'apocalyptic' means, it clearly does not apply to Daniel or his friends. We do not deny that Daniel has much to say about the future in his book, some of it bleak in its implications. But, far from leading him to run away from society and responsibility, the revelation he had of the future led him to live a very full professional life at the highest levels of administration in the empire. Daniel's understanding of God did not lead to his developing a ghetto mentality but to taking a full and prominent part in the life of Babylon."
So Professor Lennox does not have a problem in seeing the education of Daniel and his friends as being the equivalent of higher education and in describing their then educational institution of learning as the University of Babylon. It has been argued by the GBoJW that modern day higher education represents a hazard to the individual. Yet such hazards did not befall any of the Bible characters aforementioned, and the times in which Daniel and his three friends lived were especially hazardous.
As the literature of the WTBTS is so often saying, there are "scriptural principles" which can guide us where the Bible does not directly address an issue - such as that of pursuing "higher education". One such principle is Jeremiah 10:23. This scripture is mentioned a lot in WTS literature. It says that "It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." In that this is so, with copious human history to evidence the truth of the scripture, then why should anyone decide how another human being should "direct his step" - GBoJW or otherwise? Why should an individual exempt himself from the counsel of 1 Thess 4:11 - "...make it YOUR aim to live quietly and to mind YOUR own business" and additionally, ignore the counsel of 1 Peter 4:15 - "...let none of YOU suffer as a .... busybody in other people’s matters." So scriptural principle seems to be offering the guidance that whether or not to pursue a higher education is one's "own business" and directing others in the matter is the characteristic of a "busybody". Therefore, in that these few scriptures are being ignored by the GBoJW in the context of educational options, what else might they be ignoring in scripture which has value and merit for those who (presume to) lead? Why don't they simply advise reflecting on the experiences of Luke, Moses, Daniel and his three friends, and let the individual come to his own decision? An individual is absolutely free to make his or her own decision as to the level of education to be pursued. After all, the scripture tells us: "Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom." (2 Cor. 3:17)
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Reasons for Stagnation in Growth. AKA YearBook Numbers!
by ttdtt inso why has the growth flatlined?
why is less time spent in the ministry?
why have aux pios droped by 1/3rd?.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
A significant factor could well be the environment shaped by the GB and their officers. The meetings, literature, and JW websites are hardly the positive and "uplifting" environments which their authors believe them to be. The study WT has especially deteriorated markedly in recent years. I now more readily understand why the WT statement of purpose on the inside front cover disappeared without announcement from the Jan 2013 study edition onwards.
Additionally, the WTS seems to have enterred into an era of capriciousness and is therefore an "unsteady" ship where individuals can easily loose their footing and "stumble". (I for my part, cannot give a reposte to those who opine the ship is sinking.)
Further, those providing "leadership" locally are most likely doing so poorly as their minds are held somewhat captive to the "legalism" of the GB rather than the refreshment of the Christian message.
The path they are following cannot lead to other than progressively poor outcomes.
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Little "oops" in today's WT Study article.
by stillin inparagraph 12 recommends that we meditate on the weekly reading for the theocratic ministry school.
ok, i'm splitting hairs here.
but there will be no more tms in a week.. somebody isn't keeping up with jehovah's celestial chariot..
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
I'm 99% convinces the rearrangement of these deck chairs for the mid-week meeting were simply to get the name "school" out of the program, thus an end-around any governmental authority.
I think you've got something there Lostgeneration. There was only a matter of several weeks between the new Jan 2016 arrangement being announced (no more TMS - at least in name) when items about illegal/unregistered schooling started appearing in UK news items. These items mostly referred to Madrasses and Jewish schools - with OfSTED (government schools inspectorate) undertaking investigations. So I'm guessing that someone in JW HQ received advanced legal advice and they made the changes accordingly. So the reasons given by the WTBTS / GBoJW may well be false, as they were for the "simplified arrangement" years ago, and for other changes embarked upon more recently.
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Little "oops" in today's WT Study article.
by stillin inparagraph 12 recommends that we meditate on the weekly reading for the theocratic ministry school.
ok, i'm splitting hairs here.
but there will be no more tms in a week.. somebody isn't keeping up with jehovah's celestial chariot..
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
I noticed that too. It gives us a little window into the capricious state of "the organisation". If one were able to calculate from the time the article was authored until the time of the letter being released about the elimination of the TMS, then we could see how rapidly they can change when it suits them. No change however on DF'ing or blood transfusion abstinance - things which are really important to many.
You mentioned the celestial chariot. An elder in my congregation stated from behind the lectern that it is getting difficult to keep up with the chariot. So their rapidity of change - doctrinal, financial, structural, may have the beneficial effect of helping some individuals to see what the leadership of "the organisation" is truly like.
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Superb advice from the WTBTS!
by Nicholaus Kopernicus in(insight vol.
the reader must put his heart into it, be absorbed in study of the material, meditate deeply upon it, and seek to benefit from it personally.pr 15:28; 1ti 4:13-16; mt 24:15" this is a fascinating statement from the insight volume.
i accept that "the help of god's spirit is necessary for real discernment and understanding of god's word.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
(Insight Vol. II pages 754-755)
The help of God’s spirit is necessary for real discernment and understanding of God’s Word. (1Co 2:9-16) To get understanding and other benefits, a person must approach the reading of God’s Word with an open mind, throwing aside all prejudice and preconceived opinions; otherwise his understanding will be veiled... (2Co 3:14-16) Superficial reading is not enough. The reader must put his heart into it, be absorbed in study of the material, meditate deeply upon it, and seek to benefit from it personally.—Pr 15:28; 1Ti 4:13-16; Mt 24:15"
This is a fascinating statement from the Insight volume. I accept that "The help of God's spirit is necessary for real discernment and understanding of God's Word." So why is it assumed that this discernment and understanding can only he had as a result of reading the publications of the WTBTS /GBoJW's. The cited scripture (1 Co 2:9-16) underpins that the WT publications are surplus to requirements. So too does the "fully competent, completely equipped" statement of 2 Tim 3:17.
I also accept that I should read scriptre with an "open mind, throwing aside all prejudice and preconceived opinions" so that my understanding won't be veiled. As a result of this approach, I cannot accept...- the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the Faithful & Discreet Slave. My rationale for such is several fold including that Christians should not be governing others. Additionally, the GB are neither faithful to God's Word, nor are they discreet. Rather, they seek do dominate man to his injury - causing people to abstain from blood transusions, exacerbating the mal-experience of child abuse victims and protecting the perpetrators, and also competing for the time of appointed men against the interests of family life and the individual's mental and physical health.
- that the organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses is the vehicle chosen by God for salvation of man as there is no such scriptural justification for such a claim. God's spirit does not need to be chanelled through any institution and the GB seem to be thinking more of themselves than it is necessary to think by magnifying their organisation. Quite idolatrous!
- the repeated claim that one needs to be obedient to the WT elders. The actual teaching of the Bible is not to be a follower of men or men pleasers. It is also now widely known that the Heb 13:17 scripture involves being persuaded. This is easier if the officers of the WT yield to scripture. Yet they tend to make much more of WT publication references and thus I am under no obligation to obey them and be a man pleaser.
So putting my heart into it, being fully absorbed in the study of the material, meditating deeply upon it, and seeking to benefit from it personally is proving liberating. Now, my money goes on my family rather than the WT. Now I feel released from WT "privileges" such as running up and down with microphones, KH security, attendant duties, TMS assignments, reading assignments. I don't feel in the least guilty for abstaining from their so called "privileges". I read any translation of the Bible I like - now seldom the NWT. I understand that when the WTBS extols unity, it actually means uniformity! This paragraph in the Insight Volume is certainly good advice - but with outcomes not intended by the WTBTS!
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"Freeness of speech"
by Wonderment inthis was posted on another thread (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6040010839031808/christmas-tree-word-appreciation), but wondered about how others here would see this with one experience i had as an elder now as ex-jws.. when we were jw's we had to be extremely careful with what we said around the brotherhood.
if someone said anything out of the ordinary, relationships among the involved were halted immediately, or were never the same afterwards.
in this place, one can say almost anything without the fear of having a truck run over us.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
My experience is that a talk is interesting or not depending on how much the speaker incorporates into the outline from external references. When he adds information and references it, this gives weight to what he is saying. It is tragic that there are influences around who seek to extinguish individuality on the one hand, and genuine desire to refresh, stimulate, and encourage the audience on the other hand. Innovation in other words. But then again, when an organisation at the top is dysfunctional, it can be disconcerting for those dysfunctional leaders see others do the right thing.
In my experience, there are few interesting talks given anymore. It's becoming a desert of sorts. The "famine in the land" is not really in the realm of Christendom as I was led to believe, but right there in the kingdom halls. The leadership of the WTS is addressing meeting attendance in the April 2016 edition of the Watchtower magazine.....
"REASONS TO ATTEND MEETINGS
They educate us.
They encourage us.
They bring us under the influence of holy spirit.
They give us opportunities to show our brothers that we love them.
They unite us with fellow believers.
Our attendance gives Jehovah what he deserves.
Our attendance shows Jehovah that we want to draw close to him and his Son.
Our attendance demonstrates that we support God’s sovereignty."
I can't agree with any of the above. It's just not my experience any more. I grew weary of RC ritual and repetition many years ago. Yet in many respects, WT meetings are becoming mere ritual and repetition and underpin the sovereignty of the GB, and neither encourage or educate.
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Beards
by HowTheBibleWasCreated ini have a beard.
i spend a month on vacation with no worry from the congregation overseas of course.
i grew a full beard now and with glasses i finally have posted my picture on facebook og me... next to half life 2 cover showing i look like gordan freeman lol.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
This is taken from the 1942 text called "The New World". So the WT's antipathy towards beards is/has been quite extreme. I have met a Bro from Scandinavia with a beard. He hasn't encounteted problems. Very problematic in UK and USA however.
That Jesus is not only depicted here as clean shaven but also caucasian and blond, and with the marching body language of a GI Joe is gross. Then again, all these years later, the WT Society excells in being gross/eggregious/arrogant/hierarchical.... and so on.....
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Harvesting of cash
by Nicholaus Kopernicus inin the wt handbill/invitation coloured brown, it clearly states "no collections" on the left and right sides of one of the pages.
however, on the newer and replacement handbill/invitation coloured blue/gray, reference to there being no collections is entirely absent.
i'm not sure if this is because of the present cash harvest or a sign that something even more direct may be under consideration at some time in the future.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
In the WT handbill/invitation coloured brown, it clearly states "No collections" on the left and right sides of one of the pages. However, on the newer and replacement handbill/invitation coloured blue/gray, reference to there being no collections is entirely absent.
I'm not sure if this is because of the present cash harvest or a sign that something even more direct may be under consideration at some time in the future. Yet, even before the brown handbill was released, there was a white handbill which still had "No collections" printed on it in bold. So this most recent redesign with the statement being omitted may well be a significant sign of preparatory and future intent.
